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New Tournament setup 2v2 - ONE TEAM LEFT
Hi guys,
Was mentioned a couple of months ago, but would like to make some work out of it now. The idea is a 2v2
standard world tournament. I will summarize rules down here:
- Map:
Standard world - Entrants:
At least 16 players (8 teams), next option 32 players (16 teams) if
enough people are interested. - Teams:
2v2, teams organize themselves. Everyone that can't find a partner
will be linked to someone else that can't find a partner aswell. - Tournament details:
GROUP STAGE TOURNAMENT-SYSTEM RULES:
The 16 different teams all get ranked according to the sum of their points. The team with the highest points get rank nr. 1 and the team with the lowest gets rank nr. 16. The 16 teams are divided over 4 groups according to their rank. The first 4 teams all get their own group, then the numbers 5 until and including 8 are divided over those 4 groups, etc. By doing it this way, a good team won't lose all of his games because he might get stuck in a group with super-awesome teams.In the group stage, a win counts for 1 point and a loss for 0. Because there is no draw we don't have to use 3-1-0 system. However, if a game stops because the 100 turns are reached, the team that has the most income wins.
All teams play 3 games in the group stage. One game against each opponent. This means in each group 6 games are played in total.
According to the amount of points each team has the standings will be made. The team with the most points will be first and the team with the fewest points will be last. Note: If two teams end up with the same amount of points, the result of the match between those two teams will decide who ends higher than the other.
-
For the next part I might have to make an example. After the standings are clear we will move on to the quarter-Finals. The number 1 of pool 1 will fight number 2 of pool 2. Number 2 of pool 1 will fight number 1 in pool 2. Same idea with the numbers 3 and 4, but they move to the losers-bracket.
So for example:
If these are the standings after the
group stage.Group 1
-
Team A – 3 points
-
Team B – 2 points
-
Team C – 1 point
-
Team D – 0 points
Group 2
-
Team E – 3 points
-
Team F – 2 points
-
Team G – 1 point
-
Team H – 0 points
The different battles will look the
following way then:Winners quarter-finals:
Team A – Team F
Team B – Team E
losers quarter finals:
Team C – Team H
Team D – Team G
Also note two things:
1. The winners-bracket can't meet the losers-bracket anymore. So those brackets will be two different cups, however the winner of the
losers-bracket will be mentioned in the 'Tournament Victor Summary thread'.2. The knock out phase will have a system, so that people from the same group (pool) won't be able to meet eachother anymore before the finals.
In the Quarter-Finals, Semi-Finals and Third Place / Final there will be played two games. A third game will be played if it's a draw after the first two games. If you don't move on to the next round, you're knocked out of the tournament, so that means you don't move on to the losers-bracket.
-
- Time: 48 hours per turn
- Game creator:
every team gets a number. The team with the lowest number creates the
game. - Game creating:
Private game. Early victory conditions: 4 capitals. Loss of Capital
to another player results in instant elimination from game. No
Pre-set Factories & Automatically add a factory to each player's
capital. - Delay:
Participants have a maximum of 7 days delay if provided with a valid
reason. Must be said to the organizer and he will decide whether it's permitted or not. - Babysitters and replacement:
Should be no problem if provided with a valid reason. Players that have been eliminated may not come back into the tournament as babysitter or replacement. Must be said to the organizer and he will decide whether it's permitted or not. - Note that the organizer has the right to disqualify anyone from the tournament that is not playing according to the rules from the tournament or the End-user license agreement.
Rules are subject to change. If the majority of the people wants a rule to change (before the tournament starts!) it'll be changed.
Please let me know who is interested in such a tournament!
If interested and have a partner, include:
-
Your name
- Partners name
If interested but don't have a partner, include:
-
Your name
Kind regards,
Final Justice
PARTICIPANTS:
Without a team:
- ...
- ...
- ...
Teams:
- sanchota and zuludunba
- bode and Grik
- clemsafe and metalate
- JojoWilhelm and granahang
- ingoodguys and phantom
- Burg and Ingeneral
- Holbrook81 and Waynesloop
- oVo and drkillitz69
- Djarven and Smokedriver
- minoleg and Frostinator
- Bubba and Amabon
- Dogboy and Lancer
- Tashen and FinalJustice
- Garibaldi and Jipi
- LayerCode and LeifSyverson
- ... and ...
1. sanchota and zuludunba
im up for this and could prob get team mate but in the team games iv played iv found 48 hour turns are a lot better (gives you time to talk). ill ask around and see if anyone wants to team with me :)
I would like to join this tounament and I do not have a partner.
I want inform you that this would be my 1st tournament and if you think that I 'm not ready for this particular game that would be completly understandable but would like to be kept in mind for any upcoming tournaments.
I'm leaving it up to your discretion and await your decision. Thank you.
Proteus
I would be in and can find a partner on my own, but I second Bode's suggestion to make this tourney 48hr turns. Team games require just a little bit more time. Sound reasonable?
This type of tournament sounds awesome. Please count me in, and at this point I'll try to find my own partner. I also support 48-hour turns, especially if I've understood correctly and there will be three team games going simultaneously.
48-hour turns agreed.
@ Proteus, you are currently second last on the leaderboard. Knowing that this is a team-tournament, I think you are yet not ready to join. However, if you can find a partner that is active and willing to team up with you, you're free to join.
I agree on 48 hour turns for a team game. Also make sure to stress people are to play all 3 games at once, so they can free up the appropriate game slots for this if necessary (everyone should be taking the free upgrade to have 10 game slots available) :)
I think in terms of team communication and strategy across 3 games anything less than 48 hours might not be feasible.
Actually 3 strategy intensive team games at a time seems like a lot tbh, it takes a fair amount of time to discuss strategy and get a turn input with a good teammate as is, x3 is a lot. :)
Agree on that, so in consultation with IG, it's going to be two games played per round. If it's a tie, there will be another game played. The winner of that game continues to the next round.
Burg & InGeneral are in.
Holbrook81 and Waynesloop are in! We'd like one hour turns but will settle for 48 hours.
bode and grik are in,just need to get a name :)
ps are you not taking part in this fj?
Not sure. I'd like to take part in it, so might ask around a bit who wants to team up with me, but as an organizer I will perhaps remain on the sidelines because it might deteriorate the tournament.
Guess it depends on the enthusiasm for this tournament aswell. If there is not enough interest in such a tournament I guess I'll join in earlier.
I will be in. Will post later when I find a partner.
See u
i cant see a problem with you playing. as far as i can remember ingen takes part in his tournaments and im playing bromley in his a&a tournament at the moment so know he takes part in his ones. i'd say do it :)
Mm well if nobody else has anything against me joining the tournament, I'll ask around.
Perhaps I'll just ask an independent person who doesn't join the tournament to choose the opponents.
in please...ovo and drkillitz
Allright, if I'm right it's just clemsafe that has to find a partner now to fill up all 8 teams (JjW has found one).
Will wait one more week or something because there might be enough enthusiasm to fill up 8 more teams.
Yes, forgot to post as promised (thanks for the reminder, FJ): Mc and JjW are in.
I also like the two-out-of-two format with a rubber match if needed!
How will you seed teams? Avg. ranking, randomly, etc? Doesn't matter to me, just curious. :)
I think randomly is most fair. If I join the tournament aswell, I guess I'll ask an independent person who didnt join the tournament, if I don't join I'll be drawing the lots. Everyone then gets a number and then it's all played according to the 'Allocation Opponent' part, mentioned in the rules.
Anyway, everyone can invite all his/her friends to join this competition until and including next week.
Is this standard/full forces or 1-inf?
As to seeding, since if going by ELO InGen and I would be the #1 seed I can't really say much without a certain amount of personal bias, but you might consider whether random is truly most fair (I think in reality it both is and it isn't). I see and respect your point, but also know that with random it's likely that someone will face the prospect of having to face all of the "best" teams in order to win the championship. InGen's first head's up tourney was randomly seeded, and to keep advancing undefeated docbrown would have had to go through Barka, Hex, and Peavybob (all top players in the tourney) in his first three games, whereas some other players faced much, much easier roads. Was definitely a difficult climb for him to face.
Anyway, your tourney and I'm fine with whatever you decide, but just some food for thought.
It's full forces.
I understand what you're saying. Agree on one hand, but on the other hand in the end you have to be able to defeat everyone in order to win the tournament.
Furthermore, if you let the two strongest teams fight eachother in the first round, it would mean the loser is instantly eliminated from the tournament, without proving himself against other opponents. However a way to compensate that is by having a losers bracket aswell, and perhaps even let the winner of the losers bracket fight the winner of the 'winners'-bracket.
Anyway, it's not my tournament, it's from everyone that joins it. I'm just making sure it all happens correctly. So therefore I'm open for all suggestions and ofcourse, if more people think it's better to do it Burg's way I will do it that way. Anyway, if I can get 8 more teams filled, it's likely that I will do it your way (because then there will be more lower ranked teams).
Yeah, I'd support having a double-elim loser's bracket. I liked having a chance to claw-back after an early loss in IG's tourney, and like to think I gave folks a decent match.
With double-elim, it makes the "snake-seeding" concept (seeding #1 w/ #8, #2 w/ #7, etc) more fair, because there is a chance to recover.
My guess is it is going to be hard to pull together 16 teams, but we can see.
If Clem & FJ are amenable, perhaps those two could team, and we're set.
Btw Burg, appreciated your compiliation of the tourney victory summary. Nice work!
'Btw Burg, appreciated your compiliation of the tourney victory summary. Nice work!'
he only did it because he wins everything and wants to show off :p
ps lot of good folk in this so far but the burg/ingen dreamteam are to be feared !!
I'm in with clemsafe.
Yep, Burg/InGen is the team to beat. We'll do our best...
Sorry FJ but I formed a team with Metalate. But I'm confident some more team can join. Still so many decent players are missing. And perhaps if it's not full, u could use some BYE (for instance vs InGen/Burg, at least we will get our chance).
See u
Djarven and ... (will check around) are in.
Smokediver is with me. :)
IMHO I'd recommend the tournament employ EITHER best-of-three contests or double elim system (w/ loser's bracket like most of the recent tourneys have had) but NOT BOTH. Look at Docbrown's IO team tourney. It had both and was indeed a great tourney, but it took a year and a half to complete, in part because the combination of both of those formats meant many games. Over time some teams will tend to fall apart (due to real life commitments or whatever), and the longer it runs, the harder it may be to complete the tourney with all the original pairings. I know docbrown had to allow a bunch of substitions partway through the tourney to keep some teams going, and in the end the third-place team (Barka/Peavybob) unfortunately had to forfeit their final match because they couldn't play.
Or perhaps to guarantee everyone plenty of games even if they lose, you could keep the best-of-three matches and do what some of my youth sports tourneys did back in the day, which was to run a single-elim tourney with a loser's bracket that you only enter if you lose your first match (a loss in your second match might instead propel you to the 3rd-place game). With a field of 8, for example, you would end up with:
champion: win-win-win
2nd place: win-win-lose
3rd place: win-lose-win
4th place: win-lose-lose
loser's bracket champion: lose-win-win
LB 2nd place: lose-win-lose
LB 3rd place: lose-lose-win
LB 4th place: lose-lose-lose
I think we used to call the loser's bracket the consolation bracket or somesuch to avoid making little kids feel bad, lol. :-)
More food for thought, anyway...
Ahhh..somehow I missed original idea was best 2/3. Yeah, either double elim or best 2/3, but not both for sure.
If we end up with more than 8 teams, but less than 16, then having the top-ranked teams have bye's seems the way to go. (Tho last tourney, I was in the bottom half of competitors, and standing of me & my pard might be a bit higher and make this opinion in danger of being biased ;)
I would like to join. Anybody want to be my teammate?
i would like to be your partner hagar. but i think the spots are all full?
Frosty, I think FJ is hoping to get to 16 teams or close to it as possible in the next week or so, so hang-in.
Not sure I'd suggest it for this tournament, but I've often wondered about this approach: Play 2 games. If the result is split, use year of victory as the tiebreaker. It's a bit of a hybrid between 1-game and best-of-3 approaches.
This would be interesting for AA tournaments, as it removes problems of uneven forces (someone gets to play Allies twice). It also creates some interesting strategy decisions, and potentially rewards good turtles.
Would games get dragged out for a long time this way? The problem is really only true for game 1; once game 2 surpasses game 1 in length, the round can end.
Isn't it possible to do it like this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NSB-doubleelim-draw-2004.png
Anyway, I'm ready for a voting. If everyone thinks something else, I guess it's most fair to let the majority decide... :-)
Vote double-elim w/ higher ranked teams having a by if less than 16 teams. (Assuming "snake" matching system #1 w/ #16, #2 w/ # 15, etc or sliding matches down if less than 16 teams).
Basically the model IG used last tourney...will drag less than 2/3 w/ team games.
Truly, if there is less than 16 teams, the by sets up for better games 1st round than burg/IG crushing the lowest ranked team, etc.
i dont really know that much about tournys but i'd like what makes it the quickest.dont really wanna be playing the same tourny for a year and a half like burg said the last one went on for.
Agree with bode :)
Yea a quick tourney is what I'm in favor of too: I'm quite okay with a double elim setup (i.e., a loser bracket that gives you a chance to come back if you lost your first game); I'm also in favor of playing 1 game at a time -- 3 games at once sounds both intense with a chance of being protracted / people missing turns because of having too much to juggle. I'm good with whatever you settle on though
It will be 2 games, not three. There will only be played a third game if its a draw.
Anyway what I suggest is a Double-elimination tournament. So everyone will play at least 4 games (minimum of 2 per opponent) and in the worst of the worst scenario there is a maximum of 24 games (this is very unlikely, because it would mean loss of first game, then in loser bracket win everything including the final against the winner of the victory bracket + 3 games in every round).
Let's say someone wins every game, he will play between 10 and 15 games. Let's say someone loses the first game and then wins everthing, he will play between 16 and 24 games (again, this is very unlikely). I'd say the average amount of games per team is somewhere around 10 or 12.
Ouch! I'm starting an intensive new semester of school Monday and have to to back out fellows. Very sorry!
FinalJustice,
I repeat that I recommend against doing both best of 3 and double elim. As I said before, docbrown's similar IO team tourney took a year and a half.
My team's (w/ Dannykeat) record: 5-0 in matches, 10-4 in games. If we'd lost our last match and gone to a final showdown match in the championship round, it would have taken even longer. 10-15 games doesn't sound like all that much for a tourney like this, but it does represent a lot of different people to organize and delays to deal with.
Brainstorm: If you want to guarantee folks a larger minimum number of games (with either best of 3 or double elim by themselves the minimum number of games is obviously only 2), we can always find away to set up a lost-enough-that-you're-out-contention bracket where they can play for a consolation championship. With that bracket running completely independently of the main championship bracket (unlike the loser's bracket in double elim, which feeds into the champtionship game) it would not delay anything. Those games might be less exciting with no true championship in sight, but could still be fun and worth bragging rights.
--Burg
//double post
Whoops I shouldn't be using the Forum while using Opera.
Anyway, if I'm right there are three options (correct me if I'm wrong):
- Single elimination 2/3 games per round
- Double elimination 1 game per round
- Double elimination 2/3 games per round
I'll send out a message to everyone that has yet joined the tournament asking their point of view on this, giving additional information such as the advantages and disadvantages of each option.
FJ
how about just a sudden death set up? so you play one game if you lose your out if you win you move to next round. may not be very fair but life aint fair so suck it up and move on :) just do random picking for who plays who in each round untill we have a winner. that would be my vote on this but am happy to go with whatever fj wants to do :)
People, how about a group stage tournament? I don't think there has been one yet, but I think it's quite a nice idea.
Lets say group stage games are 1 per opponent, this will give everyone at least 3 different opponents and 3 games played. The number 1 and 2 of the group stage continue in the tournament and the losers play a losers cup for a consolation prize (no chance on a high ranking, but could be mentioned in the Tournament Victor Summary Threat).
How this works?
16 different teams; 4 teams divided over 4 different groups. The two winners in the group continue in the cup and the two losers move to the loser cup.
The winner of group 1 has the second of group 2 as opponent, the second of group 1 has the winner of group 2 as opponent and same goes with group 3 and group 4.
The loser cup the same idea but then the winner is number 3 and the second is number 4.
Then the cup continues with a knock out phase. If you get knocked out of the winner cup, you are not moved to the loser cup but really knocked out. In the knock out phase two games are played per opponent, with a third game if it's a draw.
This would give us the following amount of games played:
- The winner of both the loser and the winner cup will have played a maximum of 12 games (3 group stage and 9 knock out phase).
- There is a minimum of 5 game played per entrant (3 group stage, 2 quarter finals)
- It is likely that someone will play around 7 games
Let me know what you guys think. I think this is quite fair and doesn't take too long.
p.s. as soon as we agreed on the tournament system I will start advertising to get all of the 16 teams filled.
I'd say we do it exactly like the World Cup:
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/world-cup/bracket?cc=5739&ver=global
Two differences are that the knock out phase contains 2/3 games instead of 1 and that we also have a losers bracket. This will go exactly the same way as the winners bracket, only then with the numbers 3 and 4 from each group.
I personally think it's not that difficult to organize because its all very clear who fights who. As for the speed, I don't think that will be a big problem. For this tournament people have to play less games than the double elimination bracket, so it should be faster.
EDIT: long-winded, impractical idea that, as I lay my head on my pillow, I realize doesn't apply/transfer well to bf.