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issue dropped
So, ten human epic battle, ovo managed to get ahead of everyone due to half the players deadbeating, then another player caught a break and Ovo offered me a truce so he could go deal with it. Apparently he wasn't paying attention when I accepted because a dozen turns down the road when I've finally caught up to him incomewise (tho still not in troops) he launches a surprise attack and wipes out half my navy, claiming that I never officially accepted the NAP and that we only had an 'understanding'
abbreviated message string:
Ovo:
................
..Do we have an NAP??
Me: Yeah, sorry about..........
After pointing out that I had in fact agreed to the truce, rather than making amends or even apologizing, he said:
"Well, I totally missed that as any sort of aggreement and figured we just had an understanding that a lack of aggression towards each other might be mutually beneficial.
I've already submitted my turn, truceless. Our incomes are relatively equal,
so come get me."
and has not responded to my messages since. He has however continued attacking me, and will likely win the game now because of it.
What was the full message?
Ovo:
Sent: Spring 2025
Yeah... ****** does have the reputation of conveneient truces
going for him in the Flame Forum. As much as I'd like to dispatch
some of these deadbeats for not showing up for this one, a couple
of them are really strong.
So... are we going to NAP again?
Me:
Sent: Spring 2026
yeah, sorry about the tanks left in the country, not sure how that happened but it's not the first time. I think it might be a bug
Maybe it's just me, but I might have interpretted the "yeah" part to be agreement with the part about the strong deadbeats. Besides, there were no terms listed for the NAP. I'd say ovo followed the exact letter of what he agreed to since clearly you guys didn't attack each other for a good while. If you want to count on having a solid treaty, make sure all terms are explicitly spelled out and explicitly agreed to.
Yeah, I agree the response wasn't very clear. I wouldn't have considered that a reponse to my request, but then again, I probably would have asked for clarification.
Yep, another in favour of Ovo's interpretation, although I'd echo Assassin's point about asking for clarification. Unless I was happy with an agreement to not attack each other unless it was a really good idea. Ovo does seem to like that sort of free-flowing understanding, so what he said to you about the understanding sounds like something he would honestly have believed.
BTW, you need to separate the stacks down to individual units before retreating. Otherwise it'll let you submit retreat orders for all of them to country X, when some of them attacked from country Y. Once they're separated, they'll show the correct retreat location.
EDIT: If you are satisfied (and you don't have to be) by the responses, you might want to edit the title.
We had a truce very early in this one...
From peavybob: Sent: Capital Picking
"Hey, you want a truce?"
To which I agreed... with the normal 3 Year notice. It's a Ten Player World Map, my Cap is UK and bob's is Germany... with me holding onto Iberia & W.Europe. We will soon discover there are deadbeats on Russia, East USA, Antarctica and Nippon. Both Russia & E.USA are very strong IF their guys show up, but they don't. Nippon has only taken a few turns over the years and just declared "I'm bored, somebody take my Capital already.
I've managed to take a few territories in both N&S America, while bob has eliminated Russia and with kdlover7 (Cap is Hunnan) missing a few turns has spread across Asia.
From bobpeavy: Sent: Spring 2018
"Well, Im afraid I have to give you your three turns notice. not that I think I can stop you mind you. I think you've got this one in the bag. Nice Job. please be merciful lol"
The truce ends and we have an ongoing battle in Western Europe.
From bobpeavy: Sent: Spring 2025
"hey, I would like to point out that at this point it is in your best interest to let me have the rest of Europe, you can't defend it anymore (i admit I got a little lucky with the rolls last turn) and I need the income if I'm gonna stay on par with kdlover.
I have no interest in eleiminating you at this time, I just can't let you get too powerful either."
I respond that I'll quit defending Europe if he allows me to evacuate the 4 remaining infantry and suggest we might resume our truce. I've been flying fighters into W.Europe to help defend and with a factory there have been adding fresh infantry each year.
From peavybob: Sent: Spring 2025
"I would be willing to let you evacuate them, but I would prefer if you also made nice with holbrook. Kdlover can put 8 troops on his capital this turn if he feels like it, and you know kdlovers tendency to backstab."
I don't add more defenders to Western Europe and bob manages to retreat all of his forces from there with the exception of 4 Tanks.
From peavybob:Sent: Spring 2026
"yeah, sorry about the tanks left in the country, not sure how that happened but it's not the first time. I think it might be a bug"
We don't communicate for many years... bob has most of Asia excluding kdlover7's capital of Hunnan and a growing fleet in the South Pacific from a Thailand factory that is invading kdlover held Java. I've headed south from Africa to invade deadbeat Antarctica.
As Java is about to fall I conquer Antarctica... our incomes are near equal but I have the advantage of a bomber squadron on South Africa. bob and I have been passive on our borders, which are essentially coastlines seperated by seas... but neither of us have added defenders or attack forces in the proximity of those territories.
As bob's Pacific fleet has grown I added a few defenders on the west USA coast just to be safe and read back through our correspondance to see if we actually had renewed our NAP. Not seeing an agreement... I flew my bombers along with a sub & destroyer into the Java Sea to block bob's re-enforcing the Java invasion.
From peavybob: Sent: Spring 2040
"what the hell are you doing ovo!!! we had a truce remember!"
From oVo:Sent: Spring 2040
"Back when we agreed that I would offer no more resistance in Europe and exit from those territories I offered to renew our truce with the same terms as before, but... you didn't respond to the truce offer.
I knew we had an understanding and didn't give it much thought until your navy was in the Pacific, so I looked back through our messages and realized you had not responded to my truce offer.
Plain & simple... so I decided it was time to slow your island hopping."
A short novel later it is now Year 2043 and I currently hold a $20 edge. The Battle of the Java Sea continues along with hostile actions in the Pacific, South America and the English Channel.
thanks for clarifying that Bromley, that was bugging the hell out of me.
Ovo and I were truced before, standard 3 turn notice, then we went hostile temporarily. By going back to NAP, that implies that standard rules apply.
That was his second time asking that in the string, here's the first:
.....
Do you want to reume our NAP and give me a chance to evacuate
or do you prefer to continue hostilities in Eur/Asia?
My response:
I would be willing to let you evacuate them, but I would prefer if you also made nice with holbrook. ......
While this wasn't as specific acceptance of the truce, it was an implied acceptance, hence ovo's repeat of the question.
Doc, Ovo ended his message with a specific question, the only question in the entire message. My response consisted of an agreement, and an apology for an accidental breach of truce. How do you interpret that as an agreement to the deadbeat problem?
Wow, ovo posted while I was writing mine. 1 correction to ovo's statement though. when I sent him the offer to withdraw, I had about half of asia, kdlover had just finished off the player in who controlled java and and the pacific islands (except japan, who was another deadbeat). I was about half ovo's income at the time, and kdlover was catching up to him fast. he only went on auto after our agreement was made.
The Cliff Notes version of my post above...
Bob and I had a Truce early, he gave Notice and hostilities commenced in Europe.
We negotiated an end to my defence of Europe which included the withdrawl of forces. I also suggested we might resume our truce, but Bob didn't respond to that offer.
No communications between us for 16 Years. I attack/block Bob's navy in the Java Sea and hostilities between us erupt globally.
I actually did, you just chose to interpret my acceptance as something else even when I pointed it out to you specifically. But I'm going to drop the issue anyway because it I've really stopped caring. You're little move hasn't brought you any lasting benefit and you can't handle the number of casualties you're recieving now without breaking somewhere, plus you're about to get invaded in america. think you can handle fighting a 4th front?